Spotify and the Queue Problem

I’m sure most people will have heard of it already but Spotify is probably the most interesting music service I’ve seen since the Napster days (the first version of Napster that is, not the current one).

You find an invite for it (there are plenty freely available just now), sign-up for free and you can then access a massive back catalogue of music to stream whenever you like. The streaming seems very reliable, and the selection is pretty good: this isn’t just small artists, all the major labels are represented. The cost? You either take it for free and listen to the occassional advert (all seem pretty unobtrusive so far), or pay £10 a month to stop the adverts.

It’s different from something like last.fm‘s streaming service, because you queue up a list of songs that you want to hear, rather than just starting somewhere and having new music pushed at you (which is not a bad thing in and of itself).

If Spotify is successful, then it’ll be a game-changer. I won’t be surprised if, within a few years, Spotify is the way to get music, just as YouTube is the way to get video and Google is the way to find information. You won’t buy new music when you want to hear that one song you’ve not heard in a while, you’ll Spotify it.

It’s fair to say I like it and I think it works incredibly, having tried it on Windows, Mac and on Linux (via WINE). It looks pretty slick across the board. It does, however, have some odd behaviour in places, which I’d like to detail.

The playback functionality is built around the idea of a “play queue”: a list that holds all the songs you’ve selected to play. When they’ve played, they leave the queue and appear in your history. That’s pretty straightforward, but the manner in which you add songs to the queue is, on occassion, counter-intuitive. This is going to take a little explanation.

There are two broad routes for finding music to add to the queue. You can either use a playlist (which, neatly, are shareable over the web), or you can use the fairly comprehensive search options. Once you’ve found the music you want with either route, you then have two actions you can take: play (the default action) and queue. The difference between the two, and how they interact with the two find methods causes some issues.

Problem #1: There are two different types of queue item. This is lengthy but keep with me, it’ll help you understand the rest. Let’s say you search for and find an album. You double-click the first track and start listening. As it finishes, Spotify automatically plays the next track as it has added the whole album to the play queue. Satisfied that it’ll keep going you make another selection and queue it i.e. not “play” it straight away as you want to hear all the items from the first album which, after all, you can see in your play queue. When the next song starts you might be surprised to learn that the next track to play is not the next track from the first album, it’s the first track from your second selection.

What happened? Well, it turns out Spotify has active and passive queue items. On any search, a play will actively queue the item you selected and passively queue everything else. The play queue is sorted so that passively queued items are always after actively queued items. Using the play action creates one active item and potentially many passive items. Using the queue action creates an active item for every item you have selected.

When you made your first album selection (using the play action), the first item was actively queued and the rest were passively queued. When you made your second selection (using the queue action), it jumped in front of all those other tracks. That’s pretty counter-intuitive, and is Problem #1.

You might think, “Ok, I understand that and can avoid it”. Well, slow down, there’s more.

Problem #2: You can’t play an entire selection. If you thought that the solution to the above problem was to select the entire first album and use the play action, you’d be mistaken. Although Spotify will let you make a selection and use the play action while on that selection, it really only plays one of the tracks i.e. it ignores the fact you have made a selection. You can make a selection, use the queue action, and then delete everything before it already in your play queue, but that’s a bit of a roundabout way of doing things. Better behaviour? Enable the play action to operate over a selection, or disable it when a selection has been made. Or, model intents by adding a “Queue album” action.

Problem #3: Queing passive queue items makes copies of them. So maybe you thought the solution is to use the play action on the first item, thus passively queueing the rest, going to the play queue and selecting queue on the remaining items? Well, that works. You’ll have the entire thing actively queued. The problem is that actively queuing something like that doesn’t remove the passive copy. As soon as the entire album finishes, you’ll probably be surprised to hear the second track onwards again. The passive items weren’t removed, they were just copied to the active part of the queue. Better behaviour? Making a passive item an active item (using the queue action) should jusy promote it, and not copy it.

Problem #4: Passive queue items can’t be removed easily. Maybe you thought the solution to problem #3 is to just remove the passive items from the queue, thus leaving one active copy. I’m afraid not. You cannot remove passively queued items, without wiping out your entire play queue. This is a massive cause of irritation. Better behaviour? Activate the delete option for all items, thus allowing the removal of passive items.

Problem #5: Search and passive queuing can interact too broadly. You’ve learned to jump through the hoops above and now know how to queue things properly. Good. Let’s say you want to hear one song, and do a search for it. The search results return 10 similarly titled tracks and the one you wanted. You play the one you wanted. Can you guess what happens? Those completely unrelated tracks by unrelated artists in unrelated genres all got passively queued and you’re now listening to them. Best of all, because of problem #4 you can’t remove them without wiping out your queue entirely. Better behaviour? Restrict the passive queueing of items such that only items from the same artist/album get passively queued when searching by artist or track. A special case here is when the track is from a compilation, where you might want to queue the whole thing.

Now, I know that comes across as negative, but let me reiterate that I really like Spotify (I’ve been listening to genre:britpop on it whilst writing this), and would just like to see some basic usability improvements.

Here’s hoping the service makes it.

Tags: , ,

  1. Stuart Ian Burns’s avatar

    I’ve been working around some of these problems by creating a playlist with everything I want to listen to which is easily deletable afterwards.

  2. Joe’s avatar

    Personally I think the easiest is to stick to using the active queue or to make a playlist with songs you wanna hear and only use the passive one. You could always ask about this on their support forum.

  3. Bec’s avatar

    Spotify sucks!! Their music selection is woefully inadequate if you’re a rock fan, and then some of their tracks are cover versions anyway, shocking!!

  4. Gary Fleming’s avatar

    Bec: I have to disagree with you there. They have millions of tracks already and, if you’re following their blog, you can see they’re adding around a hundred thousand more a week. I am a rock fan, and I listen to Spotify about 6 hours a day, 5 days a week. There’s more than enough to keep me satisfied, especially now that some of my favourite labels have joined.

    I accept that it may not currently meet your exact tastes, but that’s just unfortunate for you. Wait it out, and I’m sure more and more music you like will appear. Just remember: your itch isn’t necessarily anyone else’s itch.

  5. Jens (Sweden)’s avatar

    And you can only shuffle the passive items, those I didn’t put there myself… Those songs I selected to listen to can’t be shuffeld or repeated. Love Spotify but this sucks…

  6. Bec’s avatar

    Spotify is still sucking harder than a limpet sucks rock!!

    They have NO customer service as well, or at least no one to answer any support e-mails … Hold on, maybe because Spotify sucks so much they’re just over run with customer service requests.

    I have sent 13 support e-mail requests and am still yet to receive a reply.
    They’re a bunch of jokers ripping off people at £10 a month.

  7. Gary Fleming’s avatar

    I can see you’re clearly upset, but I’ve found them to be very communicative. In fact, I got a response to my original blog post from Spotify within a few hours.

  8. Mark Wheadon’s avatar

    Gary: what did Spotify say? Are they happy with the way the playlist works? or do they accept that it’s plain weird and needs a rewrite?

    Mark

  9. Gary Fleming’s avatar

    Mark: In short, they said that it was perhaps a failure to communicate what the play queue is. In Spotify, you play from a source and you generally get the next thing from that source, which is quite different to a playlist.

    Based on that explanation, they think that (mostly) the problems I mentioned are no longer problems. I can understand what they’re saying and the reasons behind it, but I’m not sure I agree. Traditionally, music players use the playlist metaphor and “play queue” is just to close to expect anything else (and that’s assuming that anything else makes more sense, which it probably does not).

    As far as a change, I suspect not, but you never know.

  10. Bec’s avatar

    I’ve been ‘Trolled’ off the spotify support forum, with random attacks based on the premise that ‘If I’m not a premium subscriber I shouldn’t ask for customer support’

    The support forum is a trolls paradise.

  11. Thor’s avatar

    I think people are mostly just looking at the queue in a completely different way to what the makers of spotify do. I’ve been using winamp for all my music needs for around 15 years and it struck me that the spotify queue seems modeled around the same type of queuing system (press “q” on a song in winamp); the playlist is considered the general music you wish you listen to, but if you suddenly particularly fancy hearing a specific song you found (i.e. a song reminds you of one you haven’t heard in a while or you just added a new song to your list and want to hear if it’s any good) you use the queue system to override play order.

  12. Julius’s avatar

    My solution to this whole mess is to make a playlist called “Current Playlist” and only queue that. Whatever I want to listen to gets clicked-and-dragged onto Current Playlist, not onto the Play Queue, nor is any item queued by right-clicking on it and choosing Queue. Every item is only and ever moved into Current Playlist. In a way, I am using a playlist as a sane interface to the Play Queue hell.

    Other playlists cannot themselves be recursively clicked-and-dragged onto Current Playlist (why not? it’s semantically coherent. but anyway) however their contents can be, which is a workable workaround.

  13. Daniel’s avatar

    Oh man. It just added a whole bunch of compilation albums with tonnes of music I wouldn’t listen to … I’ve been clicking “forward” for minutes and it seems it will never end. They need to sort it!!

  14. Niels’s avatar

    I was surprised to notice that passive items all do have a delete button but it simply doesn’t do anything.

    It’s a behavioral problem – but the software is now punishing us for not using it exactly as its creators intended, while 2 simple changes would solve all problems:
    - Allow removal of passive items, I just don’t see why it’s disabled
    - Allow us to reconfigure double click to ‘queue current item’. It really pisses me off that it screws up the current playlist all the time.

  15. Kevan’s avatar

    This sounds a little tinfoil, but I do wonder if the odd queue behaviour is simply because Spotify stops generating ad revenue from you when you stop listening to music. It’s in their interests to have you listening to a few extra tracks that you didn’t originally intend to, or to learn to see Spotify as an always-on radio station rather than a way to listen to a few songs and then stop.

  16. GB’s avatar

    In all this time you still can’t control the queue – that’s b/s. Pushed me to Napster – more content; canned playlists are fun; automix feature; and cheaper. Why stick with Spotify?

  17. Robin’s avatar

    Created an idea on spotify’s getsatisfaction: http://getsatisfaction.com/spotify/topics/create_an_option_to_disable_the_passive_play_queue

    now we all have to like it :)

  18. Rob Wilson’s avatar

    Thanks for this article – I was experiencing exactly these issues with Spotify but I couldn’t find any information on the website – I couldn’t find any reference to the Play Queue at all. Now I understand active and passive queue items, and more importantly know that I’m going to stop using the queue altogether and just use playlists!

  19. WRB’s avatar

    I am amazed that more people don’t see this as a problem. I have used Rhapsody for years and I love it. I gave Spotify a try because of the media hype… I recently bought my first mac and rhapsody is not available for apple products. So it has now become obvious why Spotify is getting such rave reviews. Applezombies have not had the benefit of Rhaspody to compare Spotify to. The core functionality is a turd. The non-editable passive queue is beyond frustrating.

    Searching for a track and playing it, only to find I have to listen to every other search result is torturous. And it is laughable yet sad that people have to come up with special work-arounds to make this application work as expected.

    The social media features are a little clunky, but cool. Even though they iced this turd with some cool features, it is still a turd. For those that do not comprehend what that means, I suggest you go find a dog log; put your favorite icing all over it; take a bite and tell me what you think about it.

  20. Anonymous’s avatar

    Or, if you want simpler behavior you could… use playlists. One of my favorite “special workarounds.” Almost like they thought about this shit :)

    I agree that the queue is flawed, though. It’s like they wanted it to do two different things, and just chose to lump them together. Also seems like the kind of thing that might be better off invisible, rather than prominently featured in the side bar.

  21. Chris’s avatar

    this had been bugging me for a while, thanks for explaining what’s going on… wish they could figure out a more intuitive design

Reply

Your email address will not be published.

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>